34 replies to this topic

[Xilenx]

the point is that you cannot add or subtract infinite values, or with a number that goes on infinitely, because by definition, the number will never end, and that you will never reach the end, hence you can never add to infinity, or an infinite amount of digits, or take away either.

1.222..
+ 1.222..
------------
2.444... But never ending, because you never know when it stops, since it does not. Secondly, subtraction wouldn't work either, because you're trying to take either a raw value, or a never ending value, out of a never ending value, which cannot end in any type of number, which includes 0. If you do believe it ends in 0, then you believe that infinity does have an end, and that you can objectively measure it. but, that contradicts the entire point of a infinity, so you cannot assume that.

[msblaster]

Easiest Solution

x=.999...
10x=9.999...

9.999...-.999...=9
i.e., 10x-x=9x
9=9x
x=1

.999...=1

[Neo]

Quote

Easiest Solution

x=.999...
10x=9.999...

9.999...-.999...=9
i.e., 10x-x=9x
9=9x
x=1

.999...=1

Again I say, you cannot logically process terminal numbers without rounding them first. It would be like trying to package 2 infinitely long sandwiches and then adding their combined lengths.

[Xilenx]

And you cannot multiple. This is about the 6th time i've said this.

You would never be able to multiple infinity, or a number with infinite number of digits. Secondly, you cannot just subtract infinite off of infinity.

[wretched]

Quote

Easiest Solution

x=.999...
10x=9.999...

9.999...-.999...=9
i.e., 10x-x=9x
9=9x
x=1

.999...=1

if you do it the algebraic way such as this one, you're assuming that infinite digits has a value, i.e. every nine will cancel out. However, infinite is something that doesnt end so that you keep cancelling out the nines but you will never be able to cancel all of it out, because it contradicts infinity. i heard several branch of mathematics were invented to figure out whether one equals .999....

[LeonM]

but in theory 1 is equal to 1.0000...with a never ending 0

[Xilenx]

Correct, but you can have an infinite amount of 0s, b/c they never have any value. If you know that 1 = 1.000.. and so on, you can still add and subtract, b/c 0 has no value.

[Brennan-Monster]

The black hole comparison is flat-out wrong, for two reasons.

One- Black holes don't magically spit things out in some imaginary future. They crush them into a singularity that has collapsed into itself. It's not well understood, but it's hardly mysterious. Thus, the person who has fallen into the hole may experience time differently, but he will eventually be pulled in to the event horizon and destroyed. Black holes decay, though, so eventually, the matter that person was composed of is spat out in particles and x-rays and the hole dissipates. Black holes have no "other side", the word itself is misleading to the layman because it implies that holes go somewhere. It's more like a really deep sand pit, like the kind a giant ant-lion would dig. Needless to say this has nothing to do with infinity.

Two- The big crunch theory is discredited. The universe's expansion is probably accelerating, and it will not die in some collapse but in an anticlimactic lukewarm void.

Also, Xilenx- black holes, or similar objects which have all the same visible properties, exist. This has all been deduced by astronomy, though measurements of motion of nearby objects and the current state of knowledge in astrophysics. It is believed that supermassive black holes exist in the center of most galaxies, including the Milky Way, and that smaller holes exist throughout those galaxies.

As for .999...=1, this isn't really a debatable topic. It does. Ask any credible mathematician, if you don't believe the many explanations already given on this thread.

[LeonM]

Actually Black holes are sometimes connected and are called worm holes. They have the same properties as Black holes except they do not have an event horizon. So if you replace the 'black hole' with 'worm hole' the theory is not yet disproven.

[Xilenx]

I knew nothing about black holes, so I was just using the information given to me.
---
If I asked any credible mathematican, they would probably give me the same response. Blame it on my ignorance or my stubborness, but .999.. = .999..

[Brennan-Monster]

Quote

Actually Black holes are sometimes connected and are called worm holes. They have the same properties as Black holes except they do not have an event horizon. So if you replace the 'black hole' with 'worm hole' the theory is not yet disproven.

There is absolutely no evidence that worm holes exist. Even if they did their properties would not necessarily be the same as black holes.

[LeonM]

Perhaps but the Black hole you describe is a theoretical one. Black holes do exist but we have yet to observe a star collapse into an object so dense that even light can't escape its gravitational pull. A white hole is also an unobserved anomoly, the exact opposite of a black hole, both the black hole and the white hole are theoretical until we observe one or the other.

A white hole in theory runs backwards in time to be the complete opposite of a black hole, the connection between both theoretical singularities is a worm hole, therefore we can not disprove Neo's black hole idea nor prove it.

And don't try to argue that a black hole has been observed becuase its currently impossible due to its light absorbing nature.

[Brennan-Monster]

I'm reaching the ceiling of my knowledge about black holes here, but use Occam's razor for a moment, if you will.

A. You concede that black holes exist, but deny that we know what they are, for certain.

B. You say that hypothetical "white holes", if Neo's "black hole" exists, may exist, and therefore they are a theoretical possibility.

Neither of these statements is untrue, but the idea that black holes simply are overmassive objects that have collapsed on themselves is a much simpler statement that ties up all the loose ends (except the exact nature of the matter that composes such holes) rather nicely. Meanwhile, wormholes and white holes are essentially secondary products of baseless speculation. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that, unlike the black holes of the sort I describe, there is no particular reason to believe that they do.

A Layman's Guide to Black Holes

[LeonM]

Oh don't think I'm disagreeing with you I'm just saying that the possibility of Neo's theory exists. I do beleive 1 is equal to terminal 9 becuase our system of mathematics is flawed becuase we're not at a state where we can intertwine every aspect of math and science. Becuase of that we have yet to prove and disprove the theory in practical and tangible terms, not just on paper.

[Brennan-Monster]

Frankly, I hate math discussions because I'm terrible at abstract mathematics, but I'm pleased we came to some sort of consensus on this issue, which is tangential, of course, to the point, which is that terminal .999=1. I was just annoyed that that was being presented as a debatable topic when people more qualified to know the answer do, in fact, know the answer. That said, I'll shut up before I start exposing how unqualified I am to discuss the real issue.