0
z2z007, on Nov 23 2006, 05:36 PM, said:
I am pretty sure that the "other side" looks down upon us in the same manner.
You also said...
Morality cannot be pinned on propaganda because it goes a long way back. The Western world is shaped by both Greek and Judeo-Christian morality while the East (I'm not talking about all of the East) has it from Islamic beliefs. Surely there are clashes between both moralities but I believe a lot of our views are skewed by fundamentalism.
Oh yeah, just a word of advice. Don't tell an admin or mod to stay on topic. We tend not to take that kindly. That doesn't mean our opinions are better than yours though.
EDIT: In response to: "And whoa, am I suppose to talk different to somebody because he is an administrator. I thought it was off-topic and that is why I said it was off-topic. I would have said that reguardless if you were an adminastrator or if you were the king of the world. Now, can we stay on topic?"
You can claim something that we say is irrelevant but to tell us to "stay on topic" is assuming moderating power, which is something you do not have.
I really do not think you can claim morality is an insignificant issue. It is the underlying reason for a lot of the issues at present. Of course, there are the economic reasons too.
You also said...
Morality cannot be pinned on propaganda because it goes a long way back. The Western world is shaped by both Greek and Judeo-Christian morality while the East (I'm not talking about all of the East) has it from Islamic beliefs. Surely there are clashes between both moralities but I believe a lot of our views are skewed by fundamentalism.
Oh yeah, just a word of advice. Don't tell an admin or mod to stay on topic. We tend not to take that kindly. That doesn't mean our opinions are better than yours though.
EDIT: In response to: "And whoa, am I suppose to talk different to somebody because he is an administrator. I thought it was off-topic and that is why I said it was off-topic. I would have said that reguardless if you were an adminastrator or if you were the king of the world. Now, can we stay on topic?"
You can claim something that we say is irrelevant but to tell us to "stay on topic" is assuming moderating power, which is something you do not have.
I really do not think you can claim morality is an insignificant issue. It is the underlying reason for a lot of the issues at present. Of course, there are the economic reasons too.
I guess I can't tell you to get back on topic since you are an administrator and all, but whatever. Can you people forget that I said propoganda. What I was trying to say was that stimuli from our society shapes our morals. Don't criticize the morals of others because those people have a different perception of morals. Simple as that. I am sure that you all agree with that. I am not attacking any morals. What I meant by insignificant was that it was insignificant to the overall subject at hand. Look at all the points I made on 11/23 10:53 PM. The only thing anybody touched on was me saying "We are in a westernized society and the morals we have is a result of western propoganda." So, I shudn't have said propaganda. So what? give me a break. I knew that this topic was going to end up justifyng the actions of the soldiers by degrading the Iraqi people for their beliefs. And that is why I said that before. But, no, you guys had to look at the small things I say and you try to use it against me. And that is why this ended up happening:
katinka, on Nov 23 2006, 05:58 PM, said:
I agree with Z on this one. I am by no means claiming that Americans have amazing morals, but i do believe our morals are better than those of places where women are killed for simply being independent, where rape victims are considered adulterous, and where two people falling in love is a crime.
You believe your morals are better? What have I been saying on this whole topic? You think it is better because of the society you were brought up in. No set of morals is better than the other. If I were to argue about the points you mentioned, than, we would definately go off topic. But, I will say these two points, rape was not common at the time of the prophet because of certain reasons that I do not want to talk about. My second point is that, Islam was the first society to give more rights to the women. Before that, the status of women always went down in every society. The muslims society was the first society in recorded history to raise the status of the women. Well, this is what my freshmen global teacher said himself.
techkid, on Nov 23 2006, 06:25 PM, said:
AFter watching that video for about a few seconds I felt the outrage that zaccariah2005 feels, but then I realized that I felt wrong and took the view that some people have posted had. I came to this assumption myself so the rest of this statement is based on my own views.
What the soldiers was wrong, yes I agree. But you have to remember that in other parts of the world there is far worse that is going on and we have to make sure those things are stopped before we stop such miniscule things. It is still wrong but there is something called scarcity in society. Scarcity. in economic terms, refers to anything that is used by society that there is not enough of if every person was to get some of this good or service. Military strength and setting things right can be also looked at as being scarce. As a society we have to put our efforts to stopping things from happening that harm society the most. Look at it this way: what the soldiers did was the lesser of two evils.
There are people in this world who get gratitude from seeing other people suffer. Heck that is what Hitler was. Also remember that these soldiers are doing things that they think is right. But that does not mean that all of the society that these soldiers come from is like that. One bad applie ruins the whole bunch.
I hope you all realize that what we call western propaganda is now practically everywhere. "Americanization" is cocuring all over the world so if you make the statement that the reason that someone does something is because of our own propaganda, how do you know these soldiers weren't raised somewhere else and were subjected to the same media and all of that? You do not have to be native born to be in the army.
What the soldiers was wrong, yes I agree. But you have to remember that in other parts of the world there is far worse that is going on and we have to make sure those things are stopped before we stop such miniscule things. It is still wrong but there is something called scarcity in society. Scarcity. in economic terms, refers to anything that is used by society that there is not enough of if every person was to get some of this good or service. Military strength and setting things right can be also looked at as being scarce. As a society we have to put our efforts to stopping things from happening that harm society the most. Look at it this way: what the soldiers did was the lesser of two evils.
There are people in this world who get gratitude from seeing other people suffer. Heck that is what Hitler was. Also remember that these soldiers are doing things that they think is right. But that does not mean that all of the society that these soldiers come from is like that. One bad applie ruins the whole bunch.
I hope you all realize that what we call western propaganda is now practically everywhere. "Americanization" is cocuring all over the world so if you make the statement that the reason that someone does something is because of our own propaganda, how do you know these soldiers weren't raised somewhere else and were subjected to the same media and all of that? You do not have to be native born to be in the army.
first off, I never said that american soldiers are doing this out of our propoganda. The only reason I mentioned propoganda was because we started talking about the actions of some Iraqi people. You say that one apple does not ruin the whole bunch. Let me respond to that with an analogy. If there was a journalist who came to America to do a report on something. He was kidnapped and tortured. And somehow, he escaped. You can't expect him to say something like "The american people are great people. only a few of them are bad." That wouldn't make sense. The only thing he would wanna talk about is those bad americans who tortured him. But, as far as we know it, he is only talking about those few americans and he is not talking about every American. Same thing here. I am not talking about every american soldier, I am just talking about the bad ones. And I agree that things have to be set right in Iraq. I am just saying that if they want to fix the society, atleast be sincere in doing so. They accepted this as their duty. The Iraqi war did not involve a draft.
