132 replies to this topic

[Wenger]

No genocide occuring and it never has upon the Palestinian people. If the Palestinian citizens didn't elect the terrorist organization Hamas in Gaza, which fires dozens of rockets at Israel every day, Israel wouldn't have to conduct military excursions.

The Jews have every right to settle in Israel. Like any race, they deserve their own homeland, and have had an ACTIVE presence in Israel/Palestine for over 4,000 years. After Europe's Jews were exterminated, it remained too unsafe to stay in Europe. Pogroms in Poland, Hungary, and Romania continued to occur. America, and other nations had a tight immigration policy and Palestine was the only area they could settle in. Many Jews sacrificed everything they had, and even arrest to arrive there. The 800,000 Jews expelled from Arab nations also had no other place to go to.

And look at Israel today. It is the most developed, free, and tolerant nation in the Middle East. It has virtually no natural resources. And yet, the Jews have turned it into a great place. Egypt should annex the Gaza Strip and Palestinians in the West Bank should go live in Jordan (half of its population is Palestinian).

And how dare anyone compare the dreadful crimes of the Nazis to the supposed ones of Israel. Anyone who says such a thing should be ashamed of himself. But then again, they're all antisemites...

[katinka]

Wenger, on Jul 18 2008, 06:58 PM, said:

And how dare anyone compare the dreadful crimes of the Nazis to the supposed ones of Israel. Anyone who says such a thing should be ashamed of himself. But then again, they're all antisemites...

I'm not going to bother picking the whole post apart, but i would like to make clear that anti-israeli policy ≠ anti-semitic. While the validity of the "Israel=Nazis" comparison is questionable, someone can be opposed to the actions taken by the Israeli military/government and have nothing against the Jewish people as a whole.

[Wenger]

katinka, on Jul 18 2008, 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not going to bother picking the whole post apart, but i would like to make clear that anti-israeli policy ≠ anti-semitic. While the validity of the "Israel=Nazis" comparison is questionable, someone can be opposed to the actions taken by the Israeli military/government and have nothing against the Jewish people as a whole.

I nver said that an anti-Israeli policy is antisemitic, although it usually is. And the comparison is not questionable in the least. An organized genocide of over 11,000,000 people through gassing and mass executions with the intent of extermination and slave labor is nothing to an average of 1,000 deaths per year in Palestine, most of whom are terrorists or collaberators.

And most people who say that there are anti-Israeli, but not antisemitic, are usually just trying to disguise their own antisemitism, not that I'm accusing anyone of anything...

[leo2car]

katinka, on Jul 18 2008, 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not going to bother picking the whole post apart, but i would like to make clear that anti-israeli policy ≠ anti-semitic. While the validity of the "Israel=Nazis" comparison is questionable, someone can be opposed to the actions taken by the Israeli military/government and have nothing against the Jewish people as a whole.

Each nation protects it self from attacks. Do u support getting hit repeatedly because u do not defend yourself. This is just a natural reflex of humans, to protect oneself. The army protects the people.

[z2z007]

I think you missed katinka's point entirely.

[PinKkFloyDd]

Wenger, on Jul 19 2008, 12:00 AM, said:

I nver said that an anti-Israeli policy is antisemitic, although it usually is. And the comparison is not questionable in the least. An organized genocide of over 11,000,000 people through gassing and mass executions with the intent of extermination and slave labor is nothing to an average of 1,000 deaths per year in Palestine, most of whom are terrorists or collaberators.

And most people who say that there are anti-Israeli, but not antisemitic, are usually just trying to disguise their own antisemitism, not that I'm accusing anyone of anything...

You assume too much. I am only speaking for myself here, but I am anti-Israel only in the fact that it should have never been created by the UN and the division of the holy land should've been left to the people here. But since Israel supports our causes we throw a !@#$load of money at them annually, so that's another reason why I consider myself anti-Israel. We have no right to interfere with the going-ons in the Middle East and we should neither support Israel or Palestine. Let them fix their own damn problems.

[djharkavy]

PinKkFloyDd, on Jul 28 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

You assume too much. I am only speaking for myself here, but I am anti-Israel only in the fact that it should have never been created by the UN

It wasn't.

In fact, the UN opposed the creation of Israel, which occured by British Mandate (which was appropriate, since the British controlled the land at the time...) and due to the UN, the land of Israel was first reduced in size, and then that piece was divided into Jordan (which got a significantly larger percentage) and Israel.

PinKkFloyDd, on Jul 28 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

and the division of the holy land should've been left to the people here.

Colonial empires rarely leave anything up to the natives.

PinKkFloyDd, on Jul 28 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

We have no right to interfere with the going-ons in the Middle East and we should neither support Israel or Palestine. Let them fix their own damn problems.

But we had much to do with causing the problems in the first place, using the entire area for proxy fights...

[Wenger]

PinKkFloyDd, on Jul 28 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

You assume too much. I am only speaking for myself here, but I am anti-Israel only in the fact that it should have never been created by the UN and the division of the holy land should've been left to the people here. But since Israel supports our causes we throw a !@#$load of money at them annually, so that's another reason why I consider myself anti-Israel. We have no right to interfere with the going-ons in the Middle East and we should neither support Israel or Palestine. Let them fix their own damn problems.

What have I assumed? If Israel shouldn't have been created, where should have all the persecuted Jews from Europe without any possessions expected to live? In a single Palestine ravaged by a civil war? Or should it not have been created and the people there could just keep murdering themselves? And you're obviously too ignorant to know that we send equal amounts of money to Egypt, an Arab country which does not support most of our causes. And just so you know Israel is fixing its problems. But when they kill hundreds of terrorists people like you accuse them of being a racist state without equal rights for the Palestinian population.

I'd like to see you respond to this, PinKkFloyDd

[PinKkFloyDd]

Wenger, on Aug 15 2008, 02:10 PM, said:

What have I assumed? If Israel shouldn't have been created, where should have all the persecuted Jews from Europe without any possessions expected to live? In a single Palestine ravaged by a civil war? Or should it not have been created and the people there could just keep murdering themselves? And you're obviously too ignorant to know that we send equal amounts of money to Egypt, an Arab country which does not support most of our causes. And just so you know Israel is fixing its problems. But when they kill hundreds of terrorists people like you accuse them of being a racist state without equal rights for the Palestinian population.

I'd like to see you respond to this, PinKkFloyDd

Where did I ever accuse of Israel being a racist state? Again, you assume too much. I do not prefer one side over the other if you had read my post correctly. And I don't see how Egypt plays a part in this discussion, especially since I do not support funding them as well. I believe the United States should be mostly politically isolationist and should not interfere with other nations and issues unless those issues do involve the United States. If it were Palestine that had been created and had been funded by the US, I'd be "anti-Palestine". So you missed the point of my post altogether. I'm simply saying what goes on in the Middle East is none of our business, and we should not be funding any nation nor should we be siding with any nation.

And thanks djharkavy, I was a little iffy on how exactly Israel was created. And yes, we definitely did cause most of the problems, but most of the Middle East only resents us more because we are still staying, even if we are "trying to help" (which I believe is just an excuse for the US to profit at the expense of lives, both Americans and the people of the Middle East).

[leo2car]

PinkKkFloyDd we already tried being isolated. AND ENDED UP WITH WORLD WAR II!!!!!!!! and Hitler. Thats your history lesson.

Middle East is very hard to deal with because they have weapons that are dangerous. Israel has nuclear weapons. Pakistan has then. And Iran is what you think of it.

[Awad]

Pakistan is not a part of the Middle East, like at all.

[PinKkFloyDd]

leo2car, on Aug 18 2008, 08:26 PM, said:

PinkKkFloyDd we already tried being isolated. AND ENDED UP WITH WORLD WAR II!!!!!!!! and Hitler. Thats your history lesson.

Middle East is very hard to deal with because they have weapons that are dangerous. Israel has nuclear weapons. Pakistan has then. And Iran is what you think of it.

Actually, World War II was mostly caused by the winners of WWI demanding reparations from Germany while their economy was hurting, plus Germany having a leader who was a great orator and had turned around the German economy. WWII was not caused by America's isolationist standpoint.

[leo2car]

It could have been prevented if the United States was not isolated.

It began with Hitler's Germany invading Czechoslovakia.

Putin's Russia just invaded Georgia.