70 replies to this topic

[Quixotic]

just reading that other topic about Israel reminded me of this question I've had for such a long time but never really answered. I just want to ask people who do believe in God why God seems so real as opposed to "pagan gods" and how they can believe they're fake while God is undeniably real. I mean a lot of people know about Greek gods, Roman gods etc and people back then sincerely believed in them. Then the monotheists (basically just the Christians and Muslims) killed the pagans and converted everyone. Then everyone doesn't believe in the pagan gods and starts believing in one God. I mean, it just seems so clear to me that God was just an idea made up by people; what's so different about him than Zeus or Jesus with Hercules ? Plus I've read that Jesus is similar to a pagan myths about being reborn like Dionysus. I dunno...this has always bothered me so i thought i'd ask lol.

[djharkavy]

Quixotic, on Feb 11 2007, 01:22 AM, said:

just reading that other topic about Israel reminded me of this question I've had for such a long time but never really answered. I just want to ask people who do believe in God why God seems so real as opposed to "pagan gods" and how they can believe they're fake while God is undeniably real. I mean a lot of people know about Greek gods, Roman gods etc and people back then sincerely believed in them. Then the monotheists (basically just the Christians and Muslims) killed the pagans and converted everyone. Then everyone doesn't believe in the pagan gods and starts believing in one God. I mean, it just seems so clear to me that God was just an idea made up by people; what's so different about him than Zeus or Jesus with Hercules ? Plus I've read that Jesus is similar to a pagan myths about being reborn like Dionysus. I dunno...this has always bothered me so i thought i'd ask lol.

The simple answer: One's own beliefs are always true. The beliefs of other people, especially those whose beliefs contradict your own are always false.

I am sure that there are adequate theological explanations that say this with enough obfuscation that you won't read it that way.

Of course, all of you are wrong, because it is MY belief system that is really correct.

[Hypergrl41]

Well my religion teaches me that there is only one powerful God and that he is the only creator of the universe. I'm not allowed to believe in other gods beside him so I don't. Also, I believe he is the only god and it makes sense to me. Simple as that.

[randomania3]

that sounds so... simple. ^ ^. I think it all has to do with faith. and also people look to it as an explanation for thing that happen so often it has to be more than a rare coincidence. If you prayed when you had a deadly disease and survived it three times and lived ot see your children wouldn't you think there was someone to thank? (and i wasn't just making up an arbitrary story, this happened to my mom). I guess I believe in it because I was taught it and then when I questioned it, the supposed "God" (putting it in perspective not my beliefs) came through. It comes down to a matter of whether or not you can believe there's something like that presence out there despite hall the bad things on earth. but ofcourse everyone getts to make their own decision. religion/belief shouldn't be forced on anyone.

[NickC]

The definition of belief is the confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. If you have confidence in something then you can say to yourself, that is true and what ever someone else tells you is false. But not necessarily false to the person that is telling you.

I am religionless (if thats even a word) I have no religion!
I dont believe that god is real or is any religion. Most religions reflect on what happens once you die, and how your afterlife is going to be. I think the reason why most people believe in religion is because they are afraid to die or the consequences that will happen after they die. These things are believed to be uncontrollable so people usually sway toward the religion that sounds right to them or meets their desires.

[randomania3]

not all religions are all about the "after life" and my religion has nothing to do with what I want. fear has a lot to do with belief too. the greatest motivation...

[Transparent Reality]

Here's a friendly reminder not to be so up in arms about topics like these.

The squirrel god is hoping that this doesn't turn into another heated flame war.

[EndocrineFlippa]

Why I think Christianity is clearly fake:

1. The bible is completely tailored to make Jesus look like a supernatural being... There were hundreds of gospels but the Catholic Church only compiled the ones that made their religion sound good into the bible. Do I think Jesus was a decent person? yes and I think he was married and was just a normal Jewish preacher but the son of god? no.
2. It is basically a take off on Judaism.
3. It has been used as a method of control and propaganda since it was started. It enabled the Catholics to gain power over others and ultimately become rich.(Don't get me started on catholicism)

and Islam is essentially a take off of both Christianity and Judaism and was also a political tool of Muhammad... but at least Muhammad wasn't made to look like a supernatural being... everyone knew he had a wife etc.

I believe in a God and a creator but not like most religions...I don't believe in one that shuns his/her own people... I don't believe in a good that believes that people cannot worship anyone else but himself... (doesn't that commandment sound like a method of control? I mean really, believe in this religion or go to hell? haha, yea right). I also don't believe in a god that promotes the killing of others

[Hypergrl41]

Endocrine I see your point but some of things you said can't be really backed up or can they? 1. have you read the bible?( I haven't but I'm just giving you another perspective) 2.One thing I know is that the Protestant Churches refuse to accept certain books. I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church accepts all of the books and that they are contained in the bible.3. The Church is led by men (humankind).I don't need to say anymore.I'm not going to get deeper than this but just get that straight. It's all about faith and beliefs.

[EndocrineFlippa]

i agree that protestants have no bad intentions however their faith was based upon catholicism and it was there that they tailored the bible in order to make themselves look good.... the protestants essentially the same bible with Luke, John, Mark and the gospels in there were originally chosen to put in the bible for reasons I stated before

[Quixotic]

I would have to say, history wise, it seems like religion has just been a way for leaders to gain power. It can't be a coincidence that religious leaders such as the popes in the past or w/e have wieled such enormous power. Besides, who wants to go to Hell and suffer?

[DBest]

I'm a christian, the largest religion housing more people then other religions, and we only worship god and believe that hes the all powerful god. now i'm faithful to my religion but what most people don't get is that all the religions (even those in ancient areas of the world) are connected. Each one mentions many other gods besides the ones that they worship. In the bible it dosen't state it directly, but they do mention countless other gods. The religions we have now all have the same god as the main god, but some worship mary, and some have different beliefs about what happened.
what i'm trying to say is that we all have our own different beliefs but they are all entertwined. there are things that happen to us not even logic (science)can explain. Their is an unexplanable behind everything, and our answer to those unexplainables is god. He is the thing that can't be explained, time, the beggining, the end, whats to come, how we think, he's what we feel, in away he's everything. But most importantly, he's our belief. All the difference is how we see him or her to be.
wow that was a mouth full

[zaccariah2005]

I am a muslim. Islam is the fastest growing religion today and it was the fastest growing religion for the past one hundred years, a time when Islam could not have possibly been spread by the sword. Now, I understand your claim that religion is used to control people and gain political power. But, that does not show that a god doesn't exist and that these religions are wrong. How do you think these religions formed in the first place? There were people trying to gain political power? Why the hell did people start listening to people, like Muhammad, Jesus or Abraham? Jesus and Muhammad did not have political power from the begining. But, because, their messages made sense, people began to follow them. These people had to be sincere about their message. Otherwise, these great religion would have never been made. Now, you cannot judge any religion as wrong religions, because these religions have been subject to change because of history and leaders using religion as a tool, even in Islam. Yeah, the quran has been perserved well, but there are debates about which ahadeeth are true or not. For example, the shias and the Sunnis split because the shias opposed the fact that the Muslims did not make Ali as the Caliph, even though it was supposedly ordered by the prophet. For this reason, Shia do not accept some ahadeeths as valid, especially the ones the have chains of narrations from, Aishah, Umar and Abu Bakr. So, yeah, my point is, religions change over time because of history. This history should not be used to show that these religions are wrong. I, also, have points about why I believe there is a definately a supernatural being. I posted it in another topic titled "simple explanation of why god exists."

[EndocrineFlippa]

zaccariah2005, on Feb 15 2007, 06:24 PM, said:

Why the hell did people start listening to people, like Muhammad, Jesus or Abraham? Jesus and Muhammad did not have political power from the begining. But, because, their messages made sense, people began to follow them. These people had to be sincere about their message. Otherwise, these great religion would have never been made.

They started listening to them because it gave hope to those who didn't have much. For the original followers of lets says Jesus, they were just peasants and commoner workers and it gave them hope to rise above... If you live everyday with Romans on your back, crucifying people every which way you'd want somewhere to turn and something to believe in...

[zaccariah2005]

EndocrineFlippa, on Feb 15 2007, 10:08 PM, said:

They started listening to them because it gave hope to those who didn't have much. For the original followers of lets says Jesus, they were just peasants and commoner workers and it gave them hope to rise above... If you live everyday with Romans on your back, crucifying people every which way you'd want somewhere to turn and something to believe in...

So, out of all the people alive at the time, Jesus was the only person who suceeded in taking advantage of this?

[TheRainbowFalcon]

zaccariah2005, on Feb 16 2007, 07:58 AM, said:

So, out of all the people alive at the time, Jesus was the only person who suceeded in taking advantage of this?

No

http://en.wikipedia....lonius_of_Tyana

[EndocrineFlippa]

zaccariah2005, on Feb 16 2007, 07:58 AM, said:

So, out of all the people alive at the time, Jesus was the only person who suceeded in taking advantage of this?

I'm not saying Jesus preached to manipulate, i'm saying that the church manipulated the original stories to make him sound godly and tailored the bible to make Christianity into a religion... thats just a hypothetical example of why people would join a religion... thats why many joined Christianity afterwards...

and also religion has mostly been spread by forcing it on people, particularly Islam as that was how it started but also Christianity

[DBest]

you don't know what to believe because it had happened long before our written history. You lead to these dicisions because of science and historical facts, faithful people assume this from the churches, but tell me how something so old could still keep us praying today. There has to be more behind what their telling us because whats written in the bible only explains half of what happened, their people's opinions and stories. But if they weren't real or powerful how could they come to follow us today.

[EndocrineFlippa]

DBest, on Feb 16 2007, 08:35 PM, said:

you don't know what to believe because it had happened long before our written history. You lead to these dicisions because of science and historical facts, faithful people assume this from the churches, but tell me how something so old could still keep us praying today. There has to be more behind what their telling us because whats written in the bible only explains half of what happened, their people's opinions and stories. But if they weren't real or powerful how could they come to follow us today.

first off, why people still pray, they need to believe that there is some all powerful force to help them when they are in need etc. Also it has become a habit. If parents didn't force their children into their religions, organized religion wouldn't really exist, but people could formulate what they thought without an outside influence pushing ideas into their head...

and I know that the Catholic Church selected the gospels for the bible and that there we hundreds more than didn't get chosen because they didn't show Jesus in the way they wanted... I know the bible was tailored and I know that the Catholic church crushed those who said they were wrong and even destroyed some of the other stories about Jesus because they contradicted what they said... I know that a commandment exists that says you will go to hell for not worshiping Christianity's god (propaganda)... I know that women were big parts of the early Christian church but they made Mary Magdelene look bad and removed women from the Chuch hierarchy not because of what god wanted but because they wanted the power... I also know that most upper catholic religious officials are rich !@#$s which is in total contradictory of their savior who was a modest man that just gave and gave...

I also know that Muhammad started Islam by forcing it on others and destroyed the other religions in the area... if thats not a need for power and glory i don't know what is...

[Hypergrl41]

Endocrine how do you know that the bible was tailored? Also, the commandments Christians follow are the same commandments followed in Judaism. That commandment is the first commandment and followers of Judaism believe in it too. Therefore you can't tell me it was tailored into the bible by the Church to make everybody follow the Church. Anyway if you love someone, you are loyal to them and followers of religion love the God they believe in. Also, women weren't made to look bad. Jesus showed compassion to Mary Magdelene and taught us to show compassion to her by telling us not to judge her for being who she was because we are all sinners too. I really didn't want to lecture you about what it says in the bible but I had to show you that mary magdelene wasn't shown in a bad way but used by Jesus as an example to teach us not to judge but too love one another. Yeah I know the church is corrupted and not completely what it was meant to be. Then again it is led by men and men/humankind can be corrupted you know. In a world where there is war, hate and ignorance, I'm not surprised at this. The church officials may have been corrupted but the rest of the Church has always been there helping those in need. Think saints,the pope, nuns and many holy priests. There are corrupted people everywhere but there are also people with good intention and thank goodness for that.