34 replies to this topic

[Yakov]

Awad, on Nov 5 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

He was pretty lower class growing up, too. Or does that not count for anything?

And to say minorities don't face hardships is a total load of bs. If that were the case, then you wouldn't have these right wingers trying to make something of the guy's middle name, or calling him an arab (which for some reason is an insult?).

Good thing we were talking about discrimination against arabs (right?).

Anyway, my major concern with Obama is that he doesn't care about Israel and he has all these policies that he magically hopes will function w/ (imaginary) money.

[Awad]

Yakov, on Nov 5 2008, 09:48 PM, said:

Good thing we were talking about discrimination against arabs (right?).

Anyway, my major concern with Obama is that he doesn't care about Israel and he has all these policies that he magically hopes will function w/ (imaginary) money.

Totally missed the point buddy. Racial discrimination is racial discrimination.

And where exactly has he gone on the record to say he doesn't care about Israel?
But the better question is why exactly does the United States need to protect Israel anyway?

[PinKkFloyDd]

Awad, on Nov 5 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

He was pretty lower class growing up, too. Or does that not count for anything?

And to say minorities don't face hardships is a total load of bs. If that were the case, then you wouldn't have these right wingers trying to make something of the guy's middle name, or calling him an arab (which for some reason is an insult?).

What does a bunch of insane redneck dribble have to do with minority hardship in society. In fact, it's quite the opposite; there are programs and policies that pretty much serve minorities while disregarding majorities. And it does count for something that he overcame adversity for HIM, not for all African Americans.

[PinKkFloyDd]

ZoSo, on Nov 5 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

And you are the only person I know who uses the term that way. Maybe you should have used a different term, or explained what you meant originally. But this is semantics, so I'll stop.

His race is not related to his next job. The relevance is to his ability to be elected. Not about his ability to lead. When people say "first black president," they're talking about his ELECTION, not his future SERVICE as president.

Why should race be considered when electing him though? That's going backwards from where we should be. Sadly, a good portion of Obama voters voted for him mainly because he is African American, as if we are "obligated" to have an African American president.

From a fellow poster from another forum: "If color is truly irrelevant, you shouldn't give a !@#$ whether the president is white or black, regardless of whether you yourself are white or black. The fact that someone would insist at least one president must be black is prima facie proof that race to them still is relevant."

[Awad]

PinKkFloyDd, on Nov 5 2008, 10:25 PM, said:

What does a bunch of insane redneck dribble have to do with minority hardship in society. In fact, it's quite the opposite; there are programs and policies that pretty much serve minorities while disregarding majorities. And it does count for something that he overcame adversity for HIM, not for all African Americans.

Because they make up a disproportionate amount of the electorate.

[PinKkFloyDd]

That's a problem with the electoral college then (which is a highly outdated and rather useless relic from the revolutionary days).

[Awad]

Either way, you can't discount the historic nature of breaking the glass ceiling. It might be hard for you to believe, because you are in fact white and as such since you were a child (provided you were born here) were told that you could be President. They taught that to the non-white kids too, but no one actually believed it. And now that's starting to change. Now that a person of color HAS been elected, it says to everyone else that they REALLY can do anything. You know what that really means? It means all those poor kids, regardless of race might just feel that if they work hard enough, they can do anything including becoming President, and while you might say this should be the state of mind anyway that just wasn't the case.

[PinKkFloyDd]

It's not that simple. There are many socioeconomic factors to why "minorities" (I say this because it's really just lower class that includes minorities) do not succeed, and an African American becoming President will not do anything. You know what will? If minority fathers wouldn't leave the mother and children which is oh so common unfortunately. There needs to be an enlightenment and a distancing from the gangsta, ghetto, "keepin' it real" attitudes of many under privileged minority members. Bill Cosby has done more "breaking the glass ceiling" than Obama has. Obama was a rarity and it does not show a sudden enlightenment from African American communities. He got lucky, it's as simple as that. Bill Cosby, on the other hand, is getting the word out how things have to start changing from within the community rather than saying "well, we just didn't think we were allowed to do good, but now that Obama is President, anything is possible!" And I guess Obama can achieve this status if he does start addressing those kind of issues. But if he does what he plans on doing, Obama will only be known for being the first African American president and nothing of great importance.

[PongyN]

PinKkFloyDd, on Nov 5 2008, 11:55 PM, said:

It's not that simple. There are many socioeconomic factors to why "minorities" (I say this because it's really just lower class that includes minorities) do not succeed, and an African American becoming President will not do anything. You know what will? If minority fathers wouldn't leave the mother and children which is oh so common unfortunately. There needs to be an enlightenment and a distancing from the gangsta, ghetto, "keepin' it real" attitudes of many under privileged minority members. Bill Cosby has done more "breaking the glass ceiling" than Obama has. Obama was a rarity and it does not show a sudden enlightenment from African American communities. He got lucky, it's as simple as that. Bill Cosby, on the other hand, is getting the word out how things have to start changing from within the community rather than saying "well, we just didn't think we were allowed to do good, but now that Obama is President, anything is possible!" And I guess Obama can achieve this status if he does start addressing those kind of issues. But if he does what he plans on doing, Obama will only be known for being the first African American president and nothing of great importance.

You are absolutely correct in arguing that the first step is to abandon the gangster culture that unfortunately dominates a majority of the lower economic class. With that said, Obama being a black person and rising to the highest office of land can certainly help in inspiring maybe a kid or two to work harder and achieve more than the gangster-shoot-em-up-and-leave-them culture.

As to the issue of race, I absolutely think it is relevant. To claim that race is no longer relevant is effectively saying no one can distinguish color anymore. However, the crucial thing is how much if at all race affects a person's choice or perception about something. No one should be able to get a free pass nor be knocked down because of race.

[Princess Ioanna]

Im happy Obama won and that the whole chaotic and controversial events of the election are, for the most part, over. In general, he's an inspiration to most people (as was evident during his speech on the night he won) and will definetely bring about change. What the extent of that change will be, only time will tell.

Now the wait begins....

[Chiyeung DjChi Lau]

HILARY FOR SECRETARY OF STATE

[Chiyeung DjChi Lau]

HILARY FOR SECRETARY OF STATE

[azntechguy]

Our "Change" team is starting to look more and more like the Clinton administration. A lot of old hands coming back, some of whom are actually responsible for putting us in the situation we're in right now (no worries, all of them were exacerbated by the inept and/or immoral members of Bush administration)

It looks like most of the lame ducks have given up and are carelessly/irresponsible letting this country sink further downward before Obama's team can try to solve them. Let's see how Obama's team can handle all this mess over four years.

[leo2car]

With about half of the positions filled, I really dont see that much bipartisanship, Secretary Gates yes.

Obama is a great speaker that is going against what he said, nothing more than a regular politician. This party left and right change every 8 years is getting annoying because each undoes what the previous has done. Time for a great independent candidate, to bring a piece of mind to the White House.

[azntechguy]

leo2car, on Dec 1 2008, 09:54 PM, said:

With about half of the positions filled, I really dont see that much bipartisanship, Secretary Gates yes.

Obama is a great speaker that is going against what he said, nothing more than a regular politician. This party left and right change every 8 years is getting annoying because each undoes what the previous has done. Time for a great independent candidate, to bring a piece of mind to the White House.

Needless for me to say, it won't happen until a candidate from another party, other than the Democrats and Republicans, gets elected in.

I don't really buy "Independent" anymore. Joe Lieberman comes to mind...