37 replies to this topic

[ionine_]

Proud member of the Church of Atheism.

[Cowfun]

balkanthndr, on 05 January 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

Its ironic most Atheists bash Christians and other religions because they shove their beliefs down your throat. But now it seems its the other way.

Atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of belief. You don't call the state of not being sick a sickness.

[-Vince-]

Cowfun, on 06 January 2010 - 06:23 PM, said:

Atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of belief. You don't call the state of not being sick a sickness.

Depends on your philosophy and views. The definition of 'atheism' at Dictionary.com is 'the theory or belief that God does not exist'. Atheism IS belief system, it's the belief of a lack in religious views. If you say you "don't believe in anything", you're really just contradicting yourself because you do believe in something: you believe that no religion is true and that there is no Supreme Being or anything of the sort. Again, Dictionary.com defines belief as 'an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists'. Atheism would fit in the category of a belief then, because it's a wide 'acceptance' of this statement that Atheists believe to be true: Deities do NOT exist. The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines atheism as 'a disbelief in the existence of deity'. And they define disbelief as 'mental rejection of something as untrue'. Assuming this are correct and reliable definitions, the inverse of disbelief would simply be belief and that would be the 'mental acceptance of something as true'. However, if we place that definition of belief into the definition of atheism, it would be 'a BELIEF in the NONEXISTENCE of deity'.

[DoodleKid]

Hm... So what would you call a person who doesn't really believe in any religion, but does believe in a possibility of a god? I'm not really sure what to call myself... Calling myself an atheist doesn't seem to fit because I don't totally dismiss the idea of a god. My mindset: We don't have proof that there's a god, but we don't have proof that there isn't either.

And to stay on topic, I say meh, atheists advertising their disbelief in a god. I don't see much difference between that and people walking from door to door advertising their own religions.

[itsxxtiff]

DoodleKid, on 08 January 2010 - 01:47 AM, said:

Hm... So what would you call a person who doesn't really believe in any religion, but does believe in a possibility of a god? I'm not really sure what to call myself... Calling myself an atheist doesn't seem to fit because I don't totally dismiss the idea of a god. My mindset: We don't have proof that there's a god, but we don't have proof that there isn't either.

Agnostic.

[DoodleKid]

Hmm... Dictionary.com says "Agnostic" is the belief that the existence of a god is unknowable... Well I say we might find out sooner or later, or might not at all, but I guess that's close enough. Yay, I found my religious view.

[Cowfun]

-Vince-, on 08 January 2010 - 01:36 AM, said:

Depends on your philosophy and views. The definition of 'atheism' at Dictionary.com is 'the theory or belief that God does not exist'. Atheism IS belief system, it's the belief of a lack in religious views. If you say you "don't believe in anything", you're really just contradicting yourself because you do believe in something: you believe that no religion is true and that there is no Supreme Being or anything of the sort. Again, Dictionary.com defines belief as 'an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists'. Atheism would fit in the category of a belief then, because it's a wide 'acceptance' of this statement that Atheists believe to be true: Deities do NOT exist. The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines atheism as 'a disbelief in the existence of deity'. And they define disbelief as 'mental rejection of something as untrue'. Assuming this are correct and reliable definitions, the inverse of disbelief would simply be belief and that would be the 'mental acceptance of something as true'. However, if we place that definition of belief into the definition of atheism, it would be 'a BELIEF in the NONEXISTENCE of deity'.

You're arguing semantics. Not all dictionaries phrase definitions the same, and this shows how varied one can interpret a word. Here's mine.
Atheism is more of a lack of belief, not a belief.
Additionally, atheism is not a theory. A theory is an idea that is backed up by a lot of evidence. When a claim is made, i.e. god exists, it is up to the claimant to support the claim. They must put forward the evidence, the data, and the supporting proof. Saying atheism is a theory implies that it is atheists that shoulder the burden of proof-- why? It is the theists that have proposed an existence of a deity. You don't say, "Santa Clause exists. Now prove he does not." Atheists should not and do not have to prove a deity exists: the theists do.
Sure, you can still argue semantics.
Atheists don't believe. Do you believe in the tooth fairy? No? Which is a better definition of your views: "I do not have a belief in the tooth fairy," or "I believe the tooth fairy does not exist"?

[n4ru]

balkanthndr, on 05 January 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

Its ironic most Atheists bash Christians and other religions because they shove their beliefs down your throat. But now it seems its the other way.

I lol'd. It's the same way that your math teacher tells you that 2 + 2 isn't fish. Christianity argues that 2 + 2 is fish. That's just shoving BS down your throat. Atheism is telling you 2 + 2 is 4.
There's nothing ironic about it. Atheists bash Christians because they preach retardation to people.
Atheists (usually) don't do that.

[SoLR]

n4ru, on 09 January 2010 - 10:34 AM, said:

I lol'd. It's the same way that your math teacher tells you that 2 + 2 isn't fish. Christianity argues that 2 + 2 is fish. That's just shoving BS down your throat. Atheism is telling you 2 + 2 is 4.
There's nothing ironic about it. Atheists bash Christians because they preach retardation to people.
Atheists (usually) don't do that.

Your beliefs are just that, your beliefs. No one has the right to tell anyone else which belief is/isn't the best for them. Quite frankly, these ridiculous debates aren't helping anyone. A christian isn't going to become an atheist just because you called his belief retarded, same for atheists. Live with whichever belief works for you.

[n4ru]

SoLR, on 09 January 2010 - 02:10 PM, said:

Your beliefs are just that, your beliefs. No one has the right to tell anyone else which belief is/isn't the best for them. Quite frankly, these ridiculous debates aren't helping anyone. A christian isn't going to become an atheist just because you called his belief retarded, same for atheists. Live with whichever belief works for you.

They're delusions, not beliefs. Don't encourage the degeneration of America.

[DBest]

n4ru, on 09 January 2010 - 02:26 PM, said:

They're delusions, not beliefs. Don't encourage the degeneration of America.

For one, America was based on christian beliefs. For two, what your saying has no worth whatsoever because it is your viewpoint. For three, they are beliefs. Beliefs of a large group of people who now share the largest religious body in the world. For...., screw it, there are to many things wrong with that statement. The asinine remark that it's degrading America can only lead to the response that intolerance towards religion and other cultural beliefs are what's causing the adulteration of America. My argument against you may be a little biased, however, your completely ignorant statement is exactly what causes disputes/wars over those disputes. It isn't religion that makes people reject the advancement of scientific exploits, neither does it isolate groups of people from each other. Acrimonious tendencies displayed by individuals (like yourself) whose deep seeded ignorance and belligerent actions cause such suffering.
Just say something constructive or STFU!

[n4ru]

DBest, on 09 January 2010 - 05:43 PM, said:

For one, America was based on christian beliefs. For two, what your saying has no worth whatsoever because it is your viewpoint. For three, they are beliefs. Beliefs of a large group of people who now share the largest religious body in the world. For...., screw it, there are to many things wrong with that statement. The asinine remark that it's degrading America can only lead to the response that intolerance towards religion and other cultural beliefs are what's causing the adulteration of America. My argument against you may be a little biased, however, your completely ignorant statement is exactly what causes disputes/wars over those disputes. It isn't religion that makes people reject the advancement of scientific exploits, neither does it isolate groups of people from each other. Acrimonious tendencies displayed by individuals (like yourself) whose deep seeded ignorance and belligerent actions cause such suffering.
Just say something constructive or STFU!

yumad.

You're looking at this from a "freedom is allowed" standpoint. I personally don't care if you're allowed to believe what you want, your beliefs are logically invalidated and contradicting themselves, so I'm going to continue "complaining" about how retarded sky fairies sound.

And I have a magic ball. It's invisible, and you can't prove it doesn't exist. Therefore, it exists.

amidoinitrite?

Let's not forgot how many people die for religion everyday, whether directly or indirectly because of it. Many (in)famous leaders have committed genocide on the basis of religion. It doesn't matter whether it was Atheists against a religion or Religion against Atheists or the world as a whole, the existence of religion is killing off logically sound people daily, and it needs to be exterminated. 9/11, Madrid bombings, and it isn't just the Middle East either. Christians shouldn't be wasting their time going to church to make themselves feel good, they should be learning on how to stop being delusional. They don't need to pretend there is a god to make themselves feel good.

[Josh]

n4ru, if you feel like you're not going to convince DBest, then don't try. DBest, if you feel like n4ru is being senseless or oversimplifying, then don't bother. Surely both of you must feel silly about having such an ardent internet fight.

[n4ru]

Josh, on 09 January 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

n4ru, if you feel like you're not going to convince DBest, then don't try. DBest, if you feel like n4ru is being senseless or oversimplifying, then don't bother. Surely both of you must feel silly about having such an ardent internet fight.

This was a completely constructive and useful post.

No, really. Just like this one is.

[ionine_]

I love how my constant constructive posts are delete but the ones above are not.

[DoodleKid]

Religion can be a beautiful thing when it inspires hope in people and pulls people out of a slump. When it starts wars? Notsomuch.

[ionine_]

DoodleKid, on 09 January 2010 - 09:35 PM, said:

Religion can be a beautiful thing when it inspires hope in people and pulls people out of a slump. When it starts wars? Notsomuch.

There are other, much more tangible and rational things which can inspire hope in people.

[SoLR]

I no longer see the point in this thread, all it's going to do is stir up ridiculous arguments. If you have a problem with someone's beliefs(or lack thereof), just mind your own business. These senseless arguments aren't going to go anywhere.

-LOCKED-